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Post by celtics06 on Nov 14, 2006 15:04:30 GMT -5
this didn't seem like much of a contest Webb had a great year 16 wins and a 3.10 era second on the voting was hoffman who just wasn't the same after giving up the game winning hit to michael young in the ASG.
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Post by Sylvy721 on Nov 14, 2006 15:41:42 GMT -5
I disagree. I thought Hoffman should have won. Mainly I disagree when you say he wasn't the same after the All-Star Game because he only let up 2 earned runs in August and September. He set the all-time saves record and had the most saves in the NL easily, by 6 over Billy Wagner. He was the SOLE REASON THE PADRES MADE THE PLAYOFFS. Their team leader had 24 homers, their team leader had 83 RBI's, and they only had one batter at .300 (Adrian Gonzalez, .304). Their leader in wins had 12 (although 3 others had 11, but 2 of the 11 game winners had losing records) and lacked a 5th starter. Their bullpen held up the score and gave the Padres a chance to win close games, and Hoffman was the leader of the bullpen, which is why he is my Cy Young winner.
delp
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Post by BOS Sports Fan on Nov 14, 2006 17:16:55 GMT -5
i agree with webb. mainly because i dont like giving the cy young to closers. also didnt chris carpenter do good?
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Post by celtics06 on Nov 14, 2006 17:39:12 GMT -5
dylan i dont think a relief pitcher can be the sole reason a team makes the playoffs unless they break gagnes record of consecutive saves.
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Post by mzingg11 on Nov 14, 2006 18:06:22 GMT -5
Brandon Webb was 16-8 with a 3.10 ERA and 178 K's on a team that finished 76-86. Chris Carpenter was 15-8 with a 3.09 ERA and 184 K's on a team that went on to win the World Series. John Smoltz was 16-9 with a 3.49 ERA and 211 K's on a team that went 79-83. Carlos Zambrano was 16-7 with a 3.41 ERA and 210 K's on a team that went 66-96. Trevor Hoffman was 0-2 with 46 saves, with a 2.14 ERA and 50 K's.
Those are probably the best contenders for it and from those stats you could basically make an argument for any of those pitchers. Carpenter had a lower ERA by .001, more K's and one less win, but his team went to the World Series, so I don't know, he could be chosen. Also, Zambrano 16-7 with so many K's on a horrendous team that could never score any runs. Hoff was not good enough to be Cy Young in my view, for a reliever. Especially when Wagner had 44 more K's, just barely a higher ERA, and only 6 less saves. You hafta be the nastiest closer in like... forever to get Cy for that.
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Post by Sylvy721 on Nov 14, 2006 19:35:03 GMT -5
Then explain to me how the Padres got to the playoffs Mike. Tell me.
16 wins... I'm pretty sure that's the least wins ever for a Cy Young winner (I heard something on Sportscenter like that, maybe they said like, since some year).
delp
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Post by celtics06 on Nov 14, 2006 20:20:13 GMT -5
alright
if padres.com depth chart is correct this was their starting squad
avg hr rbi sb
C- Piazza .283 22 68
1b- Gonzalez .304 24 82
2b- barfield .280 13 58 21
ss- greene .245 15 55 5
3b- walker .278 9 53
lf- roberts .293 2 44 49
cf- cameron .268 22 83 25
rf-giles .263 14 83
Starting Rotation (playoffs)
Peavy 11-14 4.09 ERA 215k's
Young 11-5 3.46 ERA 165 k's
Williams 12-5 3.65 ERA 72 k's
Hensley 11-12 3.71 ERA 122 k's
Wells (played limited time witht he padres)
2nd best team era
Sure they only had 1 batter with above a 300 avg.
but not many teams can say they have their worst avg. is .255
and that was Kahlil Greene who had a pretty decent season. They
have a lot of well known named players and their pitchign staff
slacked but didn't do horrible. Hoffman did really good with 46 saves
but its tough to say a pitcher carried a team into the playoffs nevermind
a reliever who only comes in if the team does good and gets a lead.
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Post by Sylvy721 on Nov 14, 2006 21:05:03 GMT -5
Their batting was 11th in the NL, just for the record (.263). They were 12th in home runs and 13th in runs. Their offense was not good at all. In fact it was bad. Their average runs per game and era are less than a run apart, meaning the bullpen and Hoffman had to keep the game close. They did lead the league in ERA, but did not always win, which shows the lack of runs scored, which shows the close wins, which shows the need for a great closer.
To put it in historical perspective, this is in fact the least wins ever for a starting pitcher to win the NL Cy Young award, besides the two strike shortened seasons. Also, it's the highest era (3.10) since 1982 when steve carlton had a 3.11 era. And only one other winner had a higher era (Bob Gibson, 3.12). And those two won 23 games. This is one of the worst Cy Young seasons ever, flat out. He was the best reliever in an off year for starting pitchers. Eric Gagne won in 2003 in a good year for pitchers. I know it was a different, better season, but if you dominate as a closer, and no pitcher won 16 games AND had a sub-3.00 era.
(This is just a little note, but if you think Webb should win over Hoffman, than you should also be saying Chris Carpenter had a better chance than Hoffman. They had the same exact season.)
delp
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Post by celtics06 on Nov 15, 2006 15:28:52 GMT -5
I think carpenter desrerved it over hoffman. i just dont think a relief pitcher should win the cy young because he wasnt automatic he blew some saves and lost some games. I actually think carpenter should have won it because he lead his team to the playoffs, but you said earlier hoffman single handedly got them to the playoffs which isnt true because a relief pitcher doesnt carry a team.
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Post by celtics06 on Nov 15, 2006 15:30:04 GMT -5
dylan who do u think should have won, i forget what you said
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Post by Sylvy721 on Nov 15, 2006 16:12:13 GMT -5
I said Hoffman. Skip Balis and Woody Paige agree with me by the way... I'm shocked that I'm the only person that feels this way. In a year with bad starting pitching, you have to give it to the most dominant closer in the league. Yes, he did carry his team. I don't care what you say... the Padres wouldn't have made it to the playoffs without him. He was flat out the best pitcher.
delp
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Post by Sylvy721 on Nov 15, 2006 16:14:38 GMT -5
Also, Mike, tell me why Brandon Webb deserves it, not just why you think Hoffman doesn't deserve it.
delp
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Post by celtics06 on Nov 15, 2006 17:47:44 GMT -5
im not sure if brandon webb or carpenter should win it now i totally forgot about carpenter before. webb and carpenter were the best starters in the league. I just don't see how a closer can single handedly take a team to the playoffs. Gange was the last cy young that was a rp and he had a 1.20 era and 55 saves and 123 k's those numbers definately are cy young numbers because he was dominant, Eck was the one before with 7 wins 51 saves and a 1.91 era and 91 k's. Hoffman had a pretty good season but he didnt put up numbers to deserve the cy young in my opinion. Also carpenter thinking back should have one he was the ace on the best team in the NL ( if you go by MVP rules which im not positive on, but you said hoffman was the reason why they made it so i figured since you went by it you must know something). The cardinals rotation was very incosistant too, him and jeff suppan were the only 2 in that rotation with above a .500 record with over 15 starts.
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Post by Sylvy721 on Nov 15, 2006 18:45:55 GMT -5
Well, Chris Carpenter was not the reason the Cardinals went to the playoffs. Albert Pujols and their bullpen were.
But I'm not changing my mind and I know I'm right.
delp
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Post by mzingg11 on Nov 15, 2006 20:00:32 GMT -5
Well, Chris Carpenter was not the reason the Cardinals went to the playoffs. Albert Pujols and their bullpen were. But I'm not changing my mind and I know I'm right. delp Then how come you voted for Ryan Howard for MVP? |
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